[Uw-ruby] UW Ext Rails Course: Opinion on group projects

Sun Dec 2 12:39:30 PST 2007

  In answer to your question regarding homework...
I've taken the following UW Extension sequences:
Object-oriented analysis and design with UML (2005-6)
Java (2006-7)
and am currently enrolled in:
Ruby
SQL Server Specialist

This is the first time I've tried taking two courses simultaneously.
(I'm accelerating my study since I am anticipating that I may need to
leave my present employer in the near future.) My experience has been
10-25 hrs per week for study/hw.  Basically, I need to give up one
weekend day (the entire day, basically)  per week for every course I
take, since it is not easy to get much done on weekday evenings (for the
same reasons you describe). I use weekday evenings to read and revise.
Now, everything I've taken has been new material for me.  Over the
years, I've noticed that many students already know a lot of the
material and are only enrolled 'cause they want the certificate. (A flaw
in the program, I think. If someone already knows the material and wants
a piece of paper they should take an Sun, MS (or other)exam for it.) I'd
imagine the workload is lighter for them.  Some manage to work on the hw
on the job.

This works well for me. It breaks down when the technology doesn't work.
Like if you are trying to do a Java assignment and you are getting
bogged down in the Eclipse IDE.

Ryan Davis' use of the first day in class where everyone downloaded and
installed the sw on their laptops (and made sure it ran) was brilliant.
The syllabus for the Rails class mentions lots of technologies, so I'd
hope that at each class we would install those packages on our laptops
and made sure they ran before leaving.

Regarding, TDD... I like the idea and I hope to adopt it; but find it
awkward since I'm still stumbling over the Ruby syntax.  When I'm trying
to figure out how to do something, I don't want to be in the test
environment (though perhaps that is the best place to be!); and I don't
usually have time to make it work that way.  I find myself using the TDD
to iron out an algorithm that seems to be working; but not before that.
It might be that leaning the TDD and the language simultaneously is
problematic. (Or it may be that I'm just not getting it. The is a
statement of personal experience - not a judgement on TDD.) While it has
presented some additional challenges for me, I think it is a good idea
for professional programmers to share these development methodolgies,
since it helps me to get "modernized", and I wouldn't be aware of them
otherwise.  Of course if you find that methodolgy antithetical to your
own dev style, then there can be problems. If a course is going strongly
emphasize a dev style, like TDD, and insist the students work that way,
then it would be appropriate for the course to be advertised that way.

Richard

-----Original Message-----
From: uw-ruby-bounces at zenspider.com
[mailto:uw-ruby-bounces at zenspider.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Ward
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 11:56 AM
To: jimclark at ieee.org; UW's Ruby Certificate Program
Subject: Re: [Uw-ruby] UW Ext Rails Course: Opinion on group projects

Question for everyone. This is my first UW extension class. Are these  
classes usually this busy with homework? I particularly have been  
finding it to be a lot of time invested for one class, especially like  
many of you, a working professional and have a family. I am working  
the problems just about every day , zipping out after dinner to study  
for 3 hrs, and still not getting done in time. The wife has been quite  
supportive, but she starting to feel a bit crispy covering for my home  
responsibility.

Some thoughts regarding the Rails class. Maybe it would be helpful to  
see the goals and then match the requirements of those goals to the  
syllabus. I would rather see these kinds of classes more focused on  
the technologies rather than learning to be better developers or  
learning a methodology such as TDD. ;)

The good thing is that we are all Guinea Pigs, and seems pretty decent  
for a first run at the program. I am coming at this from more of a  
hobbyist POV. Not a developer by any means, its actually been years  
since I did any coding.

-Ryan

On Dec 2, 2007, at 12:22 AM, Jim Clark wrote:

> I'll second some of Richard's thoughts. It's hard enough for me to get
> to class some nights as I live in Lake Stevens and usually leave  
> around
> 4 p.m. to make sure I'm down there on time. Having group meetings on
> other nights or other group project management discussions isn't
> something I'm excited about. I want my focus to be Ruby, not group  
> dynamics.
>
> Another point I'll raise has to do with the project that I want to  
> work
> on. Since my only laptop is owned by my employer, there are certain
> guidelines as to what uses are acceptable under company policy. Hence,
> sticking to a work related rails site really fits the bill and I can  
> get
> paid for the time I spend coding which is a nice plus. Opening my
> project to a group implementation would never get corporate approval  
> if
> I need to distribute the supporting data.
>
> Regardless of format, I am taking the class and I am paying out of my
> own pocket because I know I will learn a lot and that is what is most
> important. Being excited about applying what I learn on a custom  
> project
> that continues to grow and build momentum makes my efforts more
> meaningful than trying to do the minimum necessary to be able to  
> submit
> some one time code and dump homework project (or a group project  
> that I
> am not fully invested in). My time is already heavily divided  
> between a
> full time job, my family (3 & 5 year old kids), etc. and I want to  
> make
> the most out of the time and money I invest in this certificate  
> program.
>
> Cheers,
> Jim Clark
>
> Richard Leickly wrote:
>>
>> Philip was nice enough to send out his syllabus for the Rails class
>> this winter.  It is unlikely that I would enroll in it based on  
>> what I
>> can tell about the format.  The reason is that I am very pessimistic
>> about group projects.  I think a lot can be gained from working
>> together, so I'm not opposed to sharing ideas. But if the groups that
>> Philip has in mind will need to meet outside of class, then I'm not
>> going to be able to do it.  And if there is going to be a division of
>> labor within the groups, then we are faced with the obvious problem  
>> of
>> attrition.  What will the group do if someone drops the class?  I've
>> been taking UW Extension courses for 3 years, and there is always
>> attrition.  My other qualms are based on my personal experiences in
>> college. The only good group academic experience I ever had was  
>> when I
>> was teamed up with a guy who was extremely motivated (as was I).  All
>> other experiences involved colleagues not showing up, not doing
>> anything, preferring to talk about other things, ...well... you know
>> how it goes. I don't know how generalizable my experiences are.
>>
>> I may be jumping the gun a bit here because of the lack of details
>> about what Philip has in mind. (I have not rec'd replies to my emails
>> to him yet.)  But if many of you feel the same way as me then it  
>> would
>> be good now to get these ideas out in the open. And if you don't feel
>> that way , then I could use some encouraging words about why I should
>> worry. Philip may very well have considered these issues and come up
>> with a workable structure.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Richard Leickly
>>
>>
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